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Showing messages 1 through 10 of 10.

• Won our minds, now win our hearts
  2003-04-05 18:19:18  ablair [Reply | View]
  
  
  "My first choice, and the one I'm pushing for is to award full prizes regardless of where you live." - derrick
  
  This is the best tact to take, a single contest for everyone (both inside the US and internatinally) would be the most vibrant and open, including as many countries as you can feasibly fit in. Next best would be a single contest for everyone that offered non-monetary prizes (à la your suggested international version). Worse off would be 2 contests, one for US residents (your prizes as-is) and the other contest for everyone else (non-monetary prizes only). Worst would be a US-only contest.
  
  The fact that you have received mail from people (not just me) requesting more international inclusion is actually a good sign: it shows there are a large number of people outside of US borders that are involved in MacOS X endeavours, and that O'Reilly's popularity is enough that many people really care. I know you must have to put some effort into making this contest as inclusive as possible, and O'Reilly may also have to pay out money for legal bills to do so - for a contest you were under no obligation to hold in the beginning! I'd just like to say that your efforts to do this are very much appreciated. This fair, open & international attitude is a fundamental reason why O'Reilly remains near the heart of many people's programming world.
  
  A. Blair

• Responding to Reader Feedback
  2003-03-25 13:42:07  Derrick Story [Reply | View]
  
  
  One of the first things I want to address is that O'Reilly & Associates can't afford to spend bundles of money on legal fees for research. If it comes to that, then I can tell you there won't be another contest. So suggesting that we just open it up to everyone and then go from there, legally, would be a nightmare on many levels.
  
  Apple's contest rules have residency limitations too, and even if they didn't, we cannot adopt a policy that we don't have the money to defend. As you might guess, Apple's legal budget is many times greater than O'Reilly's.
  
  As for feeling discriminated against, please don't. Discrimination has nothing to do with this issue, and by bringing that up we begin to move backwards instead of forward. This issue has to do with the law and its variances throughout the world. If we didn't care about developers regardless of the country they live in, we wouldn't be addressing these issues. Our writers are everywhere, and we embrace their brilliance regardless of where they live.
  
  What I think is important here is to offer everyone a chance to show off their ingenuity, creativity, and skill as a programmer. The prizes we currently offer are to help advance programming on the Mac platform. They are a bonus, but not the goal.
  
  At the end of the day, building a vibrant community around the Mac OS X platform is my priority here. At this point, having U.S. developers share the spotlight with those throughout the world overrides lower priority concerns around labeling and free conference passes.
  
  I'm continuing to work on having an two divisions for the next round, each receiving equal publicity and exposure.
  
  -Derrick

• Just make it a national contest
  2003-03-25 01:37:48  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  Here is a solution: copy Apple's structure for the Apple Design Awards which are after all international. Apple has good laywers, you can trust they did a good job.
  
  Secondly, I personally will never enter any contest that sets international developers apart from US developers. US Developers maye get a price, the other may get 'recognition' and will be allowed to 'brag'? Come on, how do you think it feels to be treated like a 2nd class participant?
  
  I personally think that as long as you are governed by lawyer-'angst' it is better to rename the contest the "National O'Reilly etc" to make it clear it is a national, not an international contest. And remove the 'country' field in your form while you're at it.
  
  It is one of the most frustrating experiences to be discriminated against, just because one is outside the US, especially when it is something that has nothing to do with nationality. Probably the majority of my users are in the US, the software is only in English even.
  
  Incompetent lawyers (who cannot even copy one of the existing international contests) who guide weak and fearful managers is what characterizes O'Reilly here. Is your lawyer making you afraid? Then he is probably incompetent because he *should* provide you with a solution. Take a better one and look at it from a managerial point for a change. (And yes, I do have international legal experience).

• Just in Time Solution?
  2003-03-25 00:21:11  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  Why not let everyone participate? If someone from outside the U.S. wins, then assign an attorney to look into it. If the prize or a modification of it can be awarded, award it; if not, don't. This way you don't blow money on attorney's fees to look into countries that in the end don't have any winners.
  
  Of course, the contest rules would need to inform international entrants of their situation.
  
  It seems ridiculous to have law firms making custom investigations for things like this. There should be (or may be) one or two companies that keep track of these rules and offer consulting on contest rule wording and prize selection for contests like this. Why reinvent the wheel for every contest?

• Legal wording
  2003-03-21 19:14:17  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  You've got another problem with the wording in section 13:
  
  Contest open to all adult legal U.S. residents living in the continental 48 United States other than Florida, except immediate family members of employees of O'Reilly & Associates, Inc. Apple, Inc and their respective agencies and agents. ...
  
  Note that family members of employees cannot enter. But employees aren't barred and are free to enter the contest. (Which is illegal in a lot of states.)
  
  

• 48 states
  2003-03-21 19:05:01  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  You might want to point out to your attorney that your current wording already has problems.
  
  There are 49 continental states, not 48. Alaska is definitely in North America. (If you wish to exclude Alaska, you should say 48 contiguous states.)
  
  While Florida tends to have some pretty onerous laws for contests, I'm not sure why you are excluding residents of Alaska, Hawaii, and the District of Columbia. They are all pretty benign jurisdictions as far as contest rules go. (New York is much more stringent.)
  
  Also, excluding a jurisdiction can also get you into hot water. As of a few years ago, Hawaii had purchasing restrictions where state funds cannot be used to purchase from a company that discriminates against Hawaii residents. Since the preschool, K-12, community college, and public university school systems are all run directly by the state, you have a lot of folks that can no longer legally purchase your products with employer funds. [And it should be noted that you are responsible for policing this--it isn't the responsibility of the individuals doing the purchasing.]
  

• Update on "U.S. Only" Clause
  2003-03-21 15:30:00  Derrick Story [Reply | View]
  
  
  After a this week's discussions and follow up emails, the advice so far is that a full legal review is required to make a change to the "U.S. only" clause for the Mac OS X Innovators contest.
  
  "... But advising O'Reilly on this would take several thousand dollars in legal fees to do it right."
  
  The fact of the matter is that laws governing "competitions of skill" for prizes vary from country to country, state to state.
  
  The news gets a little better when we remove prizes with cash value from the equation. Then it appears that all we have to do is include a good privacy clause (to protect your privacy rights) and we're set. "Appears" is a key word here, but I'm optimistic.
  
  So here's what I'm thinking for round two of the Mac Innovators Contest that begins on May 1, 2003:
  
  1. We keep the same "U.S. Only" competition with the existing prizes and benefits.
  
  2. We add an "International" version (that also includes U.S. Florida, Alaska, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico), that identifies the first and runner-up entries in that category.
  
  3. There would not be prizes with cash value for the International version, but there would be fame, glory, and lots of bragging rights, including an interview published on Mac DevCenter and publicity for the winning software.
  
  4. Both International and Continental U.S. winners would be featured at the O'Reilly Open Source Convention in Portland, OR this coming July.
  
  Before I push ahead with this idea, I'd like to hear your comments, especially if you are presently excluded from the contest because of the "U.S. only" clause.
  
  Depending on the feedback I get, I'll take this new approach to the legal advisors (who have smiled favorably on it at first mention), and see how far I can get.
  
  Much thanks for your patience,
  
  -Derrick

• ...
  2003-03-19 12:56:37  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  Well if the laws are to do with the giving of the prize, then why not just let everybody enter - then having judged the entries see if the winner is appicable for the prize. If so then great, if not then give it to the runner up.

• How about a prize opt out for non US residents?
  2003-03-18 00:33:06  kapper [Reply | View]
  
  
  If the legal issues are mainly centered around the prize given to the winners, wouldn't it be possible to let non US residents choose to compete just for the recognition, and not the prize?
  I'm sure that there are others beside myself, who are more interested in the possibility to get our software shown to the world, and being recognized for innovation rather than the actual prize...
  Anyways, nice to see that you are taking non US residents serious, even if it may not result in any change in the rules for the competition.
• How about a prize opt out for non US residents?
  2003-03-18 07:14:04  Derrick Story [Reply | View]
  
  
  Thanks for this suggestion. (BTW: ideas are welcome on this issue.) My first choice, and the one I'm pushing for is to award full prizes regardless of where you live.
  
  One thing that I found out yesterday is that there are a few resident limitations (not too bad) on the Apple hardware credits associated with the prizes. But I think even then there might be workarounds.
  
  Either way, I'll keep you posted as I find out more.