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Writers' Talk With Guest Wil Shipley
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OReillyMac: i have to say, the first time I saw an OmniWeb page, I thought, "this is the way the Web is supposed to look."

wilshipleyatomni: There was a poll on some website recently, and something like 70% of people on OS X said OmniWeb is their favorite browser.

OReillyMac: that low?

OReillyMac: ;-)

alanosx: With the advent of Quartz and Apple moving towards blurring the line between the net and the PC...

alanosx: do you understand what Jobs is going for and will the browser play a role? What role? Will you be there?

wilshipleyatomni: Well, I can't really speak for Jobs, for a number of reasons, least of all because I can't read his mind.

wilshipleyatomni: We obviously want to be close to Apple, and we always have been very close in terms of being able to talk to engineers.

wilshipleyatomni: It's only in the last six or so months we've finally gotten to know some of the managers and support people at Apple, and that's made our lives 100x easier.

alanosx: Yeah...but I think we are starting to see some hints at where Apple is headed. Any insight into that?

wilshipleyatomni: In particular our Worldwide Developer Relations guy, Skip Levens, is a godsend.

alanosx: Just from your experience with the new hardware and OS X.

wilshipleyatomni: OS X is a strange beast for Apple.

wilshipleyatomni: It's a server-class OS under the best consumer interface ever written.

wilshipleyatomni: How do you market such a beast?

wilshipleyatomni: There's still some of the myth that "OS X is for professionals only."

alanosx: I see that.

OReillyMac: We're working on dispelling that myth

wilshipleyatomni: To which I respond, "Then why does every game we port run 10% faster than the OS 9 port?"

OReillyMac: Everything in Cocoa, though, right?

wilshipleyatomni: The amazing thing is that the Wall Street Journal published this big piece on how OS X wasn't ready for consumers because you couldn't burn CDs.

alanosx: I think there is too much geek spin on X and not enough evangelism for the consumer.

wilshipleyatomni: Well, six months before, you couldn't burn CDs in Mac OS 9 out of the box, either!

alanosx: And is a third party issue...not Apple.

wilshipleyatomni: On the other hand, it's nice to get a somewhat slow introduction to the mass market.

OReillyMac: This sounds like a running conversation that Alan and I are having ...

wilshipleyatomni: There were real bugs and problems in 10.0.0, and I think Apple's grateful that it's only 100s of thousands of people who need to upgrade to 0.1 and 0.2, instead of millions.

OReillyMac: One more question, Wil ...

OReillyMac: Do you communicate with the Microsoft team? And where do you think they're going with their browser for Mac OS X?

OReillyMac: Are they serious about it?

wilshipleyatomni: I've spoken with Jim Grewal a couple of times now. He's a really good guy, and has, quite honestly, been a real gentleman about some of the crap I've given him over IE's bugs.

alanosx: I think they are use to hearing it.

wilshipleyatomni: There's no doubt he's serious. They were the first people to adopt Carbon, and they've borne the brunt of getting the bugs shaken out.

Learning Carbon

Learning Carbon
By Apple Computer, Inc.
May 2001 (est.)
0-596-00161-4, Order Number: 1614
352 pages (est.), $34.95 (est.)

OReillyMac: You know, that's a good point.

wilshipleyatomni: As he wrote to me, why do people blame Microsoft when the same IE code from the 9.0 port (that runs great) sucks under X?

wilshipleyatomni: That's really Carbon's fault, by definition.

wilshipleyatomni: And Apple is working on it, but I think in the meantime he shouldn't get beat up.

OReillyMac: How much harder is it to go Cocoa than Carbon for apps this size?

alanosx: I will say...the Apple team at MS is a totally different animal from the rest of the company.

OReillyMac: Agreed!

alanosx: Look at Office 2001.

wilshipleyatomni: Cocoa is SO MUCH EASIER it's crazy.

OReillyMac: Why would you choose Carbon, then?

wilshipleyatomni: But if you're starting with 10 million lines of Carbon code, then staying in Carbon is the only sensible thing.

wilshipleyatomni: What ticks me off is that Maya, a BRAND-NEW app for OS X only, decided to use Carbon.

wilshipleyatomni: WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?

OReillyMac: Really? I didn't know that.

OReillyMac: I just assumed ...

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